Tsunami Gaming

I made this because this issue has been brought up again. I'll try to explain why you should only ban the nick that did the cheating in a couple different ways. Explain to me without real world examples why you should ban all the nicks.

If you ban one nick, their IPs are banned. You'll notice that sometimes people join and they get a message kind of like this: "Host: [TSU] funhouse's IP Address appears to match calumtank's IP address, who is banned from this server. He/She will now be autokicked." or "Host: [TSU] LastLand's IP address appears to be on the ban list, and he/she will now be autokicked." As you can see, NR will automatically kick people if they are tied to people on the banlist. Calumtank was banned back in 2007, and when he tried to join two months later, his new nick was automatically kicked. If he made a new nick, it would also be automatically kicked, same with AprilWar.

A example of how this could cause problems is if people on the banlist were innocent. A person like RRkiller could play Renegade on fl00d3d's computer. If RRkiller got banned for cheating a month later, would you also ban fl00d3d? His IP is matched with his IP. Now take this example and change the names to two unknown players. The innocent person banned probably wouldn't care enough to spend the time posting on the forums, and you would ban them without a second thought, just like you would have banned fl00d3d.

I really want to hear your excuses. Relate all examples directly to Renegade please.

Nevermind. You guys can do whatever you want.

To be completely honest I couldn't tell if you were FOR or AGAINST banning all names associated through the trail of !ip and !nick on a cheater.

When you ban someone who is in game at the time (ie. auto ban by NR, or by using the !ban command) it bans the name currently being used as well as the IP that they're using. It does not, however, ban all IPs that the name is associated with. So if the person changes their name and comes back on the same IP, they'll be banned (IP match). If they person comes back with the same nickname on a different IP, they'll be banned (Name match).

Now, if you were to !ip that person, then do a !search_ip (IP Database) and then ban all of the nicknames associated with that IP, odds are you'd be OK ... even if its the guys friend, roommate, brother, etc. because even if they didn't cheat - they use that computer to cheat. But there is a chance that someone name hacked on that IP, and you'd therefore ban someone by name who was innocent and on a different IP.

But if you did a !search_name on the guy's name to find out all IPs that name has used, then banned all of those IPs (or banned all of the names associated with each individual IP) odds are high that you'd ban an innocent person. Because a lot of people name hack.

It's hard not to use examples (since you requested) ... especially when you yourself used examples. But hopefully that makes sense.

Banning in Renegade can be difficult considering how easy it is to name hack and change your IPs.

You have a good point, even if this was discuss before bringing it up is good. Nothing will change if we keep doing everything same way all the time. You're just a rude about it.

So what's to stop someone from waiting a day until their IP changes, making a new name, and then rejoining the server? Something isn't quite making sense there. I meant no examples out side of Renegade, like the whole defense system thing. I simply want an example where banning all the nicks that you can possibly link to a nickname to has been any better than just banning the name used to cheat.

Deathsta: I couldn't understand your jumbled english, sorry.

ecstasy wrote:So what's to stop someone from waiting a day until their IP changes, making a new name, and then rejoining the server?

Nothing. Just a little bit of detective work (ie. same ISP) Unless you did a console ban (by serial hash). But that can't be done properly through NR, and the serial can be spoofed with RGH.

ecstasy wrote:I meant no examples out side of Renegade, like the whole defense system thing. I simply want an example where banning all the nicks that you can possibly link to a nickname to has been any better than just banning the name used to cheat.

Banning all of the names concluded by doing: !ip then !search_ip then !nick would just ban a shitload of innocent people most of the time. Whereas banning someone's IP and nickaname that you know cheated would only ban the guilty person (though they could probably ban evade pretty easily).

So by the information you're giving me, not only can anyone with a dynamic IP ban evade without any third party software (hell, I could if I waited long enough), but banning all the extra nicks linked to an IP accomplishes nothing more than just banning the guilty nick?

deathsta2 wrote:You have a good point, even if this was discuss before bringing it up is good. Nothing will change if we keep doing everything same way all the time. You're just a rude about it.

Sorry... busying posting another topic about you.

What I meant was:

You have a good point, even though this topic has been discussed before. Bringing it up is good because nothing will change if someone doesn't.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Here is what we have established so far for people that don't like reading:
-Anyone that can change their IP and nick can ban evade.
-Banning all nicks tied to a single IP offers no more protection from ban evasion than just banning the offending nick.
-IPs and nicks can be changed, and serial hash can be spoofed.
-NR cannot ban serial hashes.
-When you ban someone, it bans their nick and currently used IP.

Is all of this information accurate?

you cant ban mandai 4eva, without banning every 1 using the same isp as him. Soooo mandai wins...

Or sean, is there any way of banning mandai, so everytime he trys to rejoin the server, He gets auto kicked from the game?>!

He has a fairly small IP range, and I've posted it in the mod hangout.

FYI: Name banning works very well if the server is in XWIS only mode and blocks direct connections (which includes GSA users). This is because nick faking cannot be easily done on XWIS only servers since you need to know a nicknames password to use it. However then you force all users to connect through XWIS... really depends if you prefer being able to ban people, or allowing GSA / DC users to join.

f*ck GSA, they are all cheaters anyway. No GSA players have joined yet this month.

NoTMoFiR3 wrote:you cant ban mandai 4eva, without banning every 1 using the same isp as him. Soooo mandai wins...

Or sean, is there any way of banning mandai, so everytime he trys to rejoin the server, He gets auto kicked from the game?>!

Yeah, you ban his ISPs using IPsec.

Sean wrote:

NoTMoFiR3 wrote:you cant ban mandai 4eva, without banning every 1 using the same isp as him. Soooo mandai wins...

Or sean, is there any way of banning mandai, so everytime he trys to rejoin the server, He gets auto kicked from the game?>!

Yeah, you ban his ISPs using IPsec.

Can people have the same ISP tho?